Finnish melodic death metal juggernauts WOLFHEART recently released their new album, “Draconian Darkness,” via Reigning Phoenix Music. During Hellsinki Metal Festival, we had a chance to catch up with vocalist/guitarist Tuomas Saukkonen and guitarist Vageliss Karzis. Watch the interview here or read the complete transcript below…
Hi there! Thanks so much for taking the time to do this interview. You just played a set at Hellsinki Metal Festival. How’s it going?
Tuomas: I’m sweating, he’s totally okay because I’m a Finnish person, +25°C, direct sunlight, I’m like a vampire. I feel that I’m lit on fire. He comes from Athens, he’s what, [used to] 40°C?
Vageliss: 40, yeah. 40 degrees, so this is like…
This is like Christmas time for you here. How has your summer been so far?
Tuomas: Yeah, it is, yeah, that’s true. It’s a weird summer, because it’s been very busy with the band, but not because of playing. This is the only festival we do in Finland. We did one in Portugal, one in France, and we’re going to do one in Germany, but most of the summer in the middle part was completely empty, but we already like got three music videos out, but we’ve done two more during the summer that are going to be out on the album release or after, so we’ve been more busy with the music videos and promo stuff than we’d usually be.
Vageliss: Yeah, the work was behind the scenes. People see what’s happening on social media, so they don’t see too much activity, but the new album takes a lot of time.
You have a new album “Draconian Darkness,” set out for release in September. It’s being released through Reigning Phoenix Music. Can you tell me a bit about the collaboration with your new label?
Tuomas: It is always a big change, especially with Napalm Records, because a label that is that old and has been operating with a huge amount of releases on a yearly basis for so long, they are like a Swiss clock, basically. It’s just like a well-oiled machine, but our contract ended with them, and we wanted to test the waters, what else is out there, and they made an offer and some other labels put offers on the table, and around that time we heard that there’s this new label or something, which is quite a big thing. I don’t think this has happened in the past 20 years. These are times when labels die, not that something this big is born or comes to the business with this size of signings. Kerry King, HELLOWEEN, OPETH, MESHUGGAH, AMORPHIS, this huge lineup.
Vageliss: It’s exciting to see something like a huge step, a new label doing such a huge step.
Tuomas: It got our attention immediately. Our management has a very close connection with the label also, and seeing how excited they were and how much they wanted to sign us was also a big factor that this label was really fighting to get us on their flow. That’s the energy that we need from the label to push the band forward. You can always add zero to the budget. Always more money. But if you don’t have a team, that means like today we’re going to give everything we have to make this band bigger or make the songs more heard or spread the band’s word better, then the money doesn’t change anything. And that was the key factor.
Vageliss: They have to have a common goal with that. If the band knows what he wants to do and there’s a good label and enough attention to pay to how to do things, then it’s going to be really good.
In this day and age, more and more bands are going independent, was that option never on the table?
Tuomas: That was like a discussion with the management also, but that is kind of like an easy possibility. It seems easier than it is because you have the tools. Everybody can just upload their music to digital distribution, and then you have Spotify, Deezer, Apple Music, and YouTube Music. It’s easier to make music videos nowadays because even the lenses on the cameras, like on the phones, would allow you to make a music video with a phone that was like, look at 20 years ago, what kind of gear you needed to make it.
Vageliss: Yeah, it was super expensive.
Tuomas: There is 3D animation, a lot of stuff that you can actually run and do with your laptop. So you have a different set of tools. But when you step into that business that you need, you want to get an album out, you want to have a vinyl out, you want to have a distribution that catches North America and Europe, hopefully, Asia and stuff like that. It is a big step. There’s a lot more involved than it seems. So it felt like too much at this point, but it just works better for big bands.
Vageliss: People will try to reach the band, but there’s also the other factor that we need to reach out to the new crowd. So we need to be able to have that distribution. So if we don’t have that and the promo and everything, yeah, you need more attention instead of less.
Let’s first talk a little about the album’s title. I noticed there is no title track so how did you come up with “Draconian Darkness” and is it connected to the themes of this album?
Tuomas: It is the vaguest theme that we have in any of our concept albums because the previous album was about Finnish mythology, which is a very narrow path, to begin with. The one before was about the Winter War, which is even three months of war between Finland and Russia. The whole album is about that period, 90 days of war, basically. So this album is a lot more vague, but it is a concept album, and that’s why I didn’t want to have a title song in a way because none of the songs would represent the title itself. Every song approaches the same theme differently, and it’s basically the flip side of the coin compared to the previous. The King of the North was about the time when people respected nature and we feared nature and we praised the bears or the gods of the rain and sunshine and stuff like that. It was a very healthy and straightforward relationship with nature. Nowadays, we just kill and burn. So this is our contribution, our legacy to the world. That’s the darkness that we bring on.
One obvious difference with any previous record is the clean vocal harmonies and even in “Scion of the Flame” they’re really prominent. I’m assuming these vocals are from Vagiss or Lauri. Why did you decide it’s a good time to integrate them in WOLFHEART’s music?
Tuomas: We have two really good vocalists, besides me who can’t do any clean vocals.
Vageliss: So it was like an experiment to see how it goes. You know, Tuomas was writing some songs that he was thinking about my vocals or Lauri‘s vocals. So he was like, okay, that’s a contrast between his voice and our voices. So yeah, he was like, okay, I want to try that chorus or that verse and see how it goes. And we did lots of takes for different verses. Not too many, but I mean, it’s not that we don’t know what we’re doing. It’s not that we’re getting in the studio. We’re like, okay, let’s see how it goes and start throwing dice.
Tuomas: But I really wanted to keep everything open for every idea because it doesn’t matter if you get like nine horribly bad ideas, but one out of ten is actually super good. Then all the work paid off. But if you don’t open that door, if you don’t allow all the ideas to be said aloud, then you’re going to lose a lot of good things that could have been on the album. And again, I can only contribute basically percussion with my voice. It’s just a rhythmic, only rhythmical element in my growling. It naturally has limits, very strict limits.
Vageliss: And both myself and Lauri, we are always like, if we don’t come up with any great ideas, it’s okay. We can still not do it. And we can continue doing what we’ve been doing in the past.
Tuomas: We have a good producer with the vocals. He’s the last man standing when he says the final word. Saku is now the first time, the only official producer on the album. I used to be either the producer or co-producer or whatever. But I took myself out from that position because I think it’s more healthy for the music itself that there’s an outsider person saying like, no, this is not a good idea. Move on or do this or do it better or slower or faster. And I do enjoy it a lot more to be the songwriter and then in the studio, just do the guitar and my vocals and be one of the guys bringing the ideas, but not the one responsible for everything.
Vageliss: It’s nice being the filter sometimes, you know, because we were sitting down in the studio and he was like, okay, let’s listen to the part that we need to come up with an idea. And I’m like, okay, let me think about an idea. Saku was like, okay, I have three metal melodies in my head, right? I’m like, oh, three. Okay, why not? That’s really good. And then you start singing those melodies and then you come up with something new and then you incorporate those ideas.
Tuomas: And again, when you keep the table open for any ideas, then you will always have a progression of new things coming up. But if you are just saying like you sing here exactly this, I do this, and here are the drums, then nothing else will happen for the song. And I think the coolest thing is to be in the studio and be super cool. I do like it a lot, the feeling that when you are amazed by your friend, like, where did that come from? Like, same with your solos or Lauri’s vocals or Joonas’ drums on this album. Everybody has those moments when I’m in the studio, probably sitting like this in the corner, on social media, or playing some game, not paying attention. And I’m like, what was that? What happened? That was so cool.
Vageliss: Yeah, that’s the magic moment you’re looking for when you’re writing new music.
Tuomas: I already have the song I wrote. And it’s just like a cake where everybody brings new decorations.
Vageliss: When you’re a songwriter, you don’t expect too many surprises. But when you get those moments, like, wow, that’s super nice.
Tuomas: And that can change how you hear the whole song. Usually, those kinds of ideas that come outside your own box, become the wow moments.
Vageliss: Yeah. When you’re writing the music, you have your surprises when you’re listening to your and you’re like, okay. But a few months later, when you record, you have the pre-production, pre-recording, then recording, then okay, there’s no surprise.
Tuomas: Yeah, exactly.
Vageliss: And then, you know, a really nice phrase comes in or a really nice melody or whatever, you know, that stands out like really nice.
Tuomas: I have a good movie reference. When you have the song ready, it’s like watching all the Deadpool movies again and again and again. But when somebody comes up with an additional idea with the vocals or solo, it’s adding Wolverine.
Vageliss: Is it good?
Tuomas: It’s awesome. It’s awesome.
Vageliss: Really?
Tuomas: It is one of the funniest and most entertaining movies I’ve seen in years.
Vageliss: I haven’t seen it.
Tuomas: Yeah, but that’s my best reference is having an outsider idea that really kicks ass. It’s like adding Wolverine to Deadpool. When you watch the movie, if the viewers see the movie, they understand what I’m saying, but you will get that when you see the movie.
Vageliss: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’ll probably do that next week.
Yeah, it’s funny. I would have never thought you were like a Marvel fan. Are you a big Marvel fan?
Tuomas: Well, I didn’t read all of the comics when I was a kid. So there’s a lot of characters that I don’t even know, that I never follow. There’s some that really bother me. It’s like DC or Marvel, it doesn’t matter. But Spider-Man is my biggest issue of all the superheroes in general. Because in the comic books, it’s a grown man. It’s a lot darker. Now every Spider-Man movie is a different teenage version, having those teenage issues in a way. And then they brought Venom, who was one of my favorite villains. And that is somehow funny. And it has one of my favorite actors, Tom Hardy. And it’s horrible, horrible movies. Because the Venom in the comics that I was reading was very dark, very serious, nothing funny. So I had a completely different idea.
Vageliss: It was getting even heavier with that guy. It was insane.
Tuomas: I couldn’t watch it. One of the few movies I couldn’t finish.
Vageliss: I mean, the original version was insanely good.
Tuomas: But I can get super nerdy. I was almost cheering aloud in the movie. Have you seen the movie?
No.
Tuomas: Okay, then, I can’t spoil it.
No, no, you can spoil it. I mean, maybe not for the viewers, but for me, you can spoil it.
Tuomas: I don’t want to be… No, it was such a gem in the movie. But it’s connected with Henry Cavill. It’s one of my favorite souls. Okay. And Missing Impossible. That’s my hint. Loading the fists, or reloading the fists.
Vageliss: No Idea.
Tuomas: Yeah, I’m just a super nerd. I just like it.
Yeah, this is a big surprise.
Tuomas: It’s two seconds from one Missing Impossible movie that is connected with the… Two seconds. And when you connect those, it’s just like…
Interesting. Yeah, is that like… I mean, I felt like, for instance, “Grave.“ You have that piano and intro, which felt very cinematic somehow. So do you guys take inspiration from movies at all?
Tuomas: Not Deadpool. Probably.
Yeah, there’s maybe not so much score there.
Tuomas: The orchestration and keys are done by our producer. And that was the guideline I told him. It has to be cinematic instead of symphonic. It needs to sound more like a movie soundtrack.
Vageliss: Like a horror movie.
Tuomas: Yeah, kind of like setting the mood. Not just adding those strings and stuff like that to make it sound bigger. Like it’s basically the same thing, but it’s still a completely different thing. And that was super important for me. The way I write songs, I always get this still picture. It’s kind of like a movie poster that I usually explain like this. Like a movie poster.
And the song that I write is a soundtrack for that image that I have in my head of the song. So the song needs to work as a soundtrack for a movie that I have in my head. When you don’t have the vocals. When you have the vocals, then it tells a different story. I don’t get inspired by the movie soundtrack in that way. But I do work the same way. I want them to sound like a movie soundtrack. And I really like that you are able to feel that something is coming. From the intro or the middle part.
Vageliss: It’s totally different than the previous times you used the piano. Previous times were like the melodic kind.
Tuomas: It was like nice.
Vageliss: It’s like Finnish. It’s been a little bit dark. But that was different. That was a cinematic horror movie. I remember we were hearing the song in the car. And I said immediately, that’s the best song you’ve ever written so far for me. We didn’t have the vocals or anything. But the structure, the riffs, and everything was like, wow.
Tuomas: And I really liked the idea. I had this idea in my head that people while listening to the music, it’s like this meme. You have the headphones on and you are smiling with the piano. And you don’t see me coming from behind with a sledgehammer. And that is the first riff. I want it to have a high contrast. When the first riff comes in, it’s just like.
Vageliss: Have you seen the movie Texas Chainsaw Massacre?
Tuomas: Of course.
Vageliss: The Beginning?
Tuomas: Which one of them?
Vagiss: The Beginning. From the newer version. It’s called The Beginning. It’s the last movie, I think. I think it’s the second scene where the Leatherface comes into the smoker’s house when he’s coming down. He’s so pissed off that he’s not going to be able to work. So he’s holding a hammer. And I remember that scene. He starts breaking his legs and then he breaks his thumb.
Tuomas: And I think it comes from the way that I started learning about metal music and learning new bands. Because I was living in this super small village. 5,000 people. It was the early ‘80s, like late ‘80s when I got into the metal. So we didn’t get any metal magazines. There was nothing where I could find bands, stuff like that. Except one of my best friends. They were probably the only ones who had a satellite antenna. And he was recording Headbanger Sports. So every week, almost, I got the music tape and I put that on. And it was just music videos after music videos of bands I never heard of before. That’s how I learned what is MEGADETH and what is SEPULTURA. I didn’t just listen to the music. I saw the video. So every new piece of music I learned came with the visual thing.
Vageliss: And for me, it was quite the opposite. I started listening first and then I started being able to see the videos. Because there was only one channel. It was quite the same. We had one TV show once a week, 12 o’clock at night. Someday it was like, if you were at home, you can see that. Otherwise, you lost it. So these guys were putting the same music over and over again. So there was not too much new stuff to check out. But we were getting everything right.
Next up, you have a Finnish tour coming very soon. What can fans expect? Are you playing lots of new music?
Tuomas: At least three songs. Then again, having already seven albums out, every year is more complicated to build a setlist. Because you want to keep our favorites. We want to play the songs we want to play. Having one song from each album is already like 45 minutes. And we’re going to add more. But at a certain point, we can’t just add more and more. So it’s going to be a headache.
Vageliss: It’s not that easy physically to be able to play 220 bpm for an hour and 50 minutes. You have to find the balance things out between you and the crowd.
Tuomas: There are no easy songs on this album. Everything is equally different ways shitty to play.
You’re only doing it to yourself, basically.
Tuomas: Yeah, we have only ourselves to blame.
Alright, well thank you so much for taking the time to do this interview. Before we wrap this up, do you have any last thoughts you want to share with your fans?
See you on the tour!
Interview by Laureline Tilkin
