Finnish symphonic metal juggernauts NIGHTWISH are releasing a brand new album, “Yesterwynde,” on September 20th, 2024, via Nuclear Blast Records. We talked with Tuomas Holopainen about the process behind the album, the lineup change, and our impressions of the album. Watch the complete interview here or read the full transcript below…
Thank you so much for hosting the prelistening session yesterday, I had a good time at least, I hope you did too. Thank you for taking some time today to chat with me. The last time we chatted was when you released AURI’s last album. How have you been?
I’ve been basically enjoying the summer at home doing a little bit of yard work, I’ve been composing for the next AURI album and have been pre-recording it as well. Then, just enjoyed the moment of “Yesterwynde” finally being ready.
How did you experience yesterday? Did you hear anyone’s first impressions?
I didn’t ask anybody anything because I had an interview immediately after the prelistening session, so I just had to bail out. I don’t really know how people reacted. There’s so much to take in after just one listen, so [it’s] quite an information overload.
I have to write a prelistening report and it’s exactly that, trying to make sense of my notes. In terms of the writing and recording process, I’m assuming not much has changed…
No, the basics have always stayed the same. With this one, maybe the biggest difference was that it took a long time. About three and a half years from the moment we started writing the songs until mastering. Of course, we did some live shows in between so it wasn’t like we were working on “Yesterwynde” 24/7 every day, but it was quite the journey. I really enjoyed every single moment I got to spend with those songs. First by myself for the first year, then toying around them with the band and seeing it all come together, it really is my favorite part of the whole process.
I guess you always travel together to get things done and listen to the demos together. Is that your favorite part, you mean, being together with the band?
My favorite part is the songwriting process. Then, the moment I get to play those songs—the demos—to the band. That’s really exciting.
Are their reaction sometimes funny? I don’t know if you pay attention to that though, but when I personally was listening to “Children of the ‘Ata” I had a very strong reaction as well since it was something I didn’t expect. Does that happen to them as well?
Yes, I really enjoy surprising people—and surprising myself too. That is maybe the only truly scary moment—when the other bandmates hear the new material for the first time. I really want them to be on the same page and enjoy it as much as I do. And if and when they do, it’s like, “Yes, now the journey really begins.”
Have there ever been times that they weren’t on the same page? I’m assuming that the songs don’t change much from when they come out of your head until they are done being recorded?
Usually not, but there have been times when the songs have actually changed. I can’t remember a single incident where someone despised a song, like saying, “We can’t do this,” or anything like that. We’ve had times where a song had a good basis, but we felt it needed something different. I remember a song called “My Walden” that changed quite a bit from the original demo. “Nemo” changed a lot from the very original demo—it had an additional middle part of about a minute and a half with Marko singing. It does happen. “Harvest” from the previous album had a different arrangement originally that we changed, but this is all part of the process, and I absolutely love it.
This is the first album with Jukka Koskinen, obviously, he’s a different player than Marko Hietala. What do you think he brought to the table playing-wise?
Playing-wise, he’s quite different from Marko, which was a very welcome thing. Marko is brilliant in his own way, and so is Jukkis. It really helped that Jukkis and Kaitsu had been playing together for 20 years or something. It was a really easy transition for him to join NIGHTWISH. I can’t really give you specific details about what’s different; he just is, and it reflects in his persona as well. He’s so grounding. I’ve never seen him agitated or anything.
I don’t know him personally, but I remember from the live shows that he has this very calm, peaceful aura that’s really nice.
Exactly, and he really knows his bass. What also made an impression on me is that when we were discussing the thematics of the new album he was like, “This is right up my alley, I love this, all of this, I love these stories, I love pondering about science and big things,” so he was instantly into all of that.
Speaking of the concept, it’s a continuation in that sense of the previous albums. I thought there were actually some pretty dark moments in the album, especially when the single “The Day Of…” was released and I read the lyrics. But in the end, I also felt like there are plenty of hopeful moments on the record. It also felt like it ended on a hopeful note. Does that sort of correspond with your outlook on life?
Without spoiling any details, to me, the album is very optimistic, even the song “The Day Of…” has a very optimistic message behind it. What Floor does in that song is acting to be somebody else. She’s the preacher of fear, the fearmonger, and then we get children in the choruses who say how things really should be. When they both join together for the last chorus, that’s when the magic happens. It’s really important that people listen to the album themselves and create their own stories around those stories that are there. That’s the beauty of music and all art, create your own story and interpretation of what the hell is going on.
I wrote down that “The Weave” in the orchestrations had this soothing element that reminded me a little of Peer Gynt’s “Morning Mood.” I think people ask you about film score and so on, do you enjoy listening to classical music as well?
I used to listen to it all the time when I was a kid and a teenager, and I believe I got a bit of an overdose on that, that’s why I don’t… well I don’t listen to any kind of music anymore. I haven’t for a decade, but I do enjoy classical music, but I think, film music can be considered as contemporary classical music, that’s something that I prefer these days, in the very rare occasions that I listen to music.
Before the prelistening, I tried to stay away from any information to go into the album with an open mind. I only listened to the singles. I think the song that surprised me most on the record was “Children of the ‘Ata.” I didn’t know what it was going to be about or the themes, and I was just like happening here now in the beginning. I looked online to find more information and I saw someone mention it’s based on the Tongan Castaways. If you use a story like that as an inspiration for the song’s themes like that, how do you get started and translate that to music?
Some kind of magic happens that I cannot explain. When I read about the story I was like “This is so incredible, this is beautiful, the world needs to hear this.” I had a similar sensation as I had with the previous album with the story of Eugene Shoemaker, “Nobody knows about this and we have this platform to bring it into the world, wonderful.” I read and watched everything I could find from the Tongon Castaways and then started writing the song, it just came as it is now. Then I contacted James Shearman from London, “Can we have some native singers from Tonga for this, are there any in London?” The choirmaster then gathered these five people, who came to the studio and who did their magic. It really elevates the song to a whole different level to hear those voices and chants. I met with one of them the day before, her name was Hanalee. She wanted to make absolutely sure why we were doing this song because the story of the Castaways is very well-known in Tonga, it’s a very important story for them. She was maybe a bit worried about why a Finnish metal band wanted to do a song about them. I showed her the lyrics, and I told her why we are doing this, their survival story is such a perfect allegory for what’s going on in the world and all that. She was highly impressed and then they did their thing. It’s also one of those songs that when I wrote it when we rehearsed it with the whole band, it was like “Yeah, this is good.” Now, when I listen to it, it is one of the ultimate highlights of the album. Sometimes it just happens that the song that you don’t expect that much from becomes something truly magical.
Yeah, I agree, it was one of my favorites. I think the other that I really liked was “Sway,” I think there was a line in there something about ghost stories in a tent. To me, that metaphor described perfectly what the song felt like. When it comes to writing the lyrics, you use a lot of poetic language and metaphors, is that an image you see in your head that you write down?
It all comes down to balance and the story that you want to tell, the more ambiguous without being artsy, the better. You want to give the listener the chance to interpret in her or his way, it’s really important. Sometimes, the subject matter is so obvious, like “The Children of ‘Ata,” “The Greatest Show on Earth,” that you immediately know what the song is about, fair enough. But with the majority of songs you want to write them so that it gives room for interpretation.
There was something that made me think what telling ghost stories in a tent feels like to me because it’s something universal that I think every child or teenager does. It’s something eerie, but at the same time, it’s also heartwarming. Was that sort of the idea behind the song?
Yeah, something like that. The beauty of poetry is that when you nail a sentence it just transmits this perfect moment, this perfect feeling. Ghost stories in a tent, it just—especially in that song— creates that perfect moment that you can visualize instantly, and then you hear the music in the background and the melody, again, something really weird happens, it’s my favorite part of the whole process, it’s finding these melodies and lyrics, and metaphors, the poetry that goes together like this and then something happens.
Are those metaphors, for instance, this one, do they usually come from your own life and feelings?
I don’t really know where they come from, they just pop up. The same with music and melodies. I’ve said this a million times but what keeps music so fresh to me still—writing music, I mean— is that “I don’t have the answers to the big questions, where does it come from? I don’t know, it just comes.”
I thought the last song, “Lanternlight,” was a very atypical way to end a NIGHTWISH record. It felt soothing as well, usually you end with longer and epic songs like “The Greatest Show on Earth,” so did you feel like that was the best way to end this trilogy series?
Absolutely, “Lanternlight” is the perfect last song in every sense.
Based on that song, I was wondering… People these days with their attention span, listen to singles. Is this album meant for you to be played in connection with “Endless Forms Most Beautiful” and “Human. :lI: Nature.,” in one sitting?
That’s how it’s meant to be. If you want to get the full experience, listen to “Yesterwynde” from beginning to end, preferably with lyrics and artwork. Just as well, pick your favorite song and dance to it, whatever you want to do, whatever pleases you. The starting point for me in doing this album was that the songs are there in that particular order for a very good reason. We were really careful with the gaps in between the songs, all the little details are there to make it all cohesive, and one big experience.
In that sense—you probably don’t—but does it happen sometimes that you write the songs chronologically?
I do not think that that ever happened, I might be wrong, but the order of the songs is exactly the same as the first demo I did and played for the band.
In the end, I think a lot of labels have an influence on that and picking the singles. That’s something you also decide on?
Yeah, the band immediately said after hearing the first demo that “The Day Of…” has to be a single. Then, a bit later came “Perfume of the Timeless,” and then Floor wanted “Lanternlight” to be the third one. It’s going to come out on the same day as the album with a music video.
I think you mentioned “The Day Of…” it wasn’t on my NIGHTWISH bingo card I guess that there would be a little bit of disco in a NIGHTWISH song, how fun is it for you after all these years to experiment with that?
You have to keep it fresh. You have to go to places that you haven’t been before. You have to challenge yourself, you have to be able to laugh at yourself every now and then. That’s what “The Day Of…” is all about, we had a lot of fun with it.
Many times, artists tell me that their time in the studio isn’t always so fun for musicians, but that song seems like it’s at least fun to record.
All of them were. I think studio time was completely fun throughout the whole process of this record.
I noticed that fans can be a little bit harsh sometimes online. When the first single, “Perfume of the Timeless,” was released they were very critical of the song’s mix, regardless of what people thought about the mix or not. Do things like that bother you?
It doesn’t bother me one bit. For me, it shows that we have been able to do something meaningful in the past that they react so strongly. I take it as a high compliment. Because if they are outraged that “Perfume of the Timeless” is too long or too generic, or if “The Day Of…” is too weird or too poppy or whatever, it just means that at some point you have been able to go under their skin, touch them so deeply that they have these reactions, that’s a heartwarming feeling for me. What else can we do but do what we feel like doing as a band. That’s the only criterion. We can never think about the outside world while creating an album. The only thing you can do is to create for yourself, be genuine, stay that way, and hope that as many people as possible find it, when it’s sent to the world.
That’s a nice way of looking at things, and I think it’s a valuable lesson for those who care about such matters. Speaking of “Perfume of the Timeless,” it’s an emotional song for me personally, as it was released the day after my grandpa passed away. The text intro in the music video moved me in a much more personal way than it might have otherwise. I did come across an interesting viewpoint in the comments that made me reflect on how “you are the result of a million loves” is a very romantic way of looking at things. Historically, existence wasn’t always grounded in love, particularly in Medieval times when people were often very cruel, and considering the unfortunate reality of children born from rape. It made me question the importance of this romanticism and escapism in the context of NIGHTWISH’s framework.
We completely understand that point and we were aware of it while doing the video and the song, but it would have made a weird lyric to include that… [laughter] I would say that the vast majority is based on love still if you go back through a million generations, so it’s fair enough to say that we are the result of a million loves. But, it’s just, the most unbelievable fact when you start to think about it, that you are the result of an endless chain of ancestors, if one of those had been killed by a cave bear in the Stone Age, then you wouldn’t exist. We are incredibly lucky to be here alive, so let’s make the best out of it, that is the core message of the album.
I’m from Belgium originally and a couple of years ago, they made this really good history series about everything that has happened to Belgians throughout history. It also made me realize that the odds that I am alive are actually pretty slim, there were so many wars and huge things happened around the world, my ancestors must have been pretty resilient, they survived the Bubonic plague, they survived all the wars, World War I, World War II, so it’s a crazy thing to think about.
Grew old enough and healthy enough to pass the seed. Generations and generations and thousands and millions of years… incredible, and beautiful.
Well, it’s also nice that I guess that specifically also gave you maybe the ideas for this whole album series. Or at least… I presume it was?
That was one of the biggest moments of understanding when I started to ponder about this fact, like “Wow, there’s a song or even an album hidden somewhere within this fact.”
Usually, at this point, I would ask about touring, but I personally find that absolutely pointless in your case. What I will ask you instead is what is life going to look like without this heavy touring cycle. Can you focus more on writing music?
Well, the plan for the near future, is to finish AURI 3, which should be mixed next February. Then, we’re going to do a tour with AURI in the Fall of 2025. What happens after that, I really don’t have a clue.
Is that a nice feeling?
It’s a lovely feeling, yeah.
I can imagine that. What I also wanted to know is that you did the solo album. Would there be maybe room for a second one?
Possibly, yeah. It’s not that long ago that I had this idea, it’s kind of a musical idea, that I got really excited about. I was thinking I can’t do this with AURI, I can’t really do this with NIGHTWISH either, so maybe another solo project kind of thing at some point in the future. I don’t know, it’s so early still, but maybe. After I finished doing Scrooge, years ago, I thought this was a one-timer, never again, don’t really need. If there comes an idea that doesn’t fit AURI or NIGHTWISH, maybe I have to go solo again. Both bands are musically so varied that you can almost do anything with those two labels, but if the theme is something that the other band members can’t really relate to, then I might have to turn to the option of going solo. That’s what happened with Scrooge, I mean… The NIGHTWISH band members don’t have such an intimate relationship with a duck as I do.
Shame on them! [laughter] This is obviously for the future because you are obviously having a hiatus from touring, but I’ve always really wanted to see that album played live. Is that among the possibilities of what’s possible for you?
I don’t know, it would be an interesting experience, I know that album has a bit of a cult status already, so it would be a success, but at the moment, I’m not really feeling it, but I’ve learned never to say never, so let’s see. I’ve been asked to do the album a few times, even on the main stage of a rock ‘n’ roll festival…
Ugh. [laughs]
On Saturday night.
You’ve robbed us of the opportunity to watch that!
I don’t think it would have worked. Have to wait and see.
Who knows, maybe we’ll have the opportunity someday. I think that is pretty much it for my questions, do you have any last thoughts you want to share with your fans?
I think we said everything necessary and important at this point. Thanks for the lovely chat.
Interview by Laureline Tilkin
